God hates divorce and you made a mistake the first time but I don’t think God would like you to sin in divorcing your second wife to try to make up for the sin you created by divorcing and cheating on your first wife…ungodly union or not.
In Malachi 2 when God says He hates divorce, it is in regards to a first (covenant) marriage—the putting away of a covenant wife(wife of one’s youth). It has nothing to do with forsaking sinful relationships outside of that first marriage.
Concerning divorce, in Ezra 9-10 we find that the men of Israel put away their wives—-because they sinned in marrying them. Divorce was an act of repentance so God’s judgment on that nation would cease. What God hates is the corrupting of what HE joins together. He also hates the joining together of those relationships HE calls sin (adultery, homosexuality, incest, etc) and calls us FROM those sins.
One thing that those who believe remarital adultery is NOT a continuous sinful relationship, may want to consider is this: if you counsel someone to STAY in relationship that is in fact sin to the Lord because the original marriage is bound til one of them dies, aren’t you “causing a little one to stumble (sin)”?
I keep forgetting to mention this.
2Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 2Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers (as in those leaving spouses unlawfully, as the case is with these anti-MDR people), false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 2Timothy 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 2Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 2Timothy 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 2Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
It’s so easy to mislead people that are laden down with sins, because they are desperate. I thought I should share that.
Funny you should see that passage the way you do, (Name Deleted) When I read the part about some being “trucebreakers”, it appears to me that this is regarding the ORIGINAL marriage entered into—-the one which God enters, taking two and making one. I don’t see the forsaking of a sinful union as applying to the text of II Tim. 3. The whole passage is about sin GROWING, not in regards to those who have a heart to forsake sin because they love the Lord.
This is affirmed also in the next chapter where we see that it is BECAUSE people want to remain in their sin that they heap around themselves false teachers who will tell them comfortable things……….
Once you begin to tamper with the Word and what it really says, you quickly go beyond what is written and add stuff (divorcing if the second marriage was born of sin). There is not one place in Scripture where that is commanded and yet this is what people are saying God says.
I suppose then because civilly divorcing a homosexual mate isn’t stated in scripture, then you don’t believe it should be done—-that you take the position that ALL divorce is evil in God’s sight?
I will repeat on this one. This is not a discussion regarding same sex unions. Homosexual “marriages” are not even addressed in Scripture. There is no issue concerning marriage or divorce between homosexuals because homosexuality is condemned in Scripture period. Same sex marriages are a civil issue until they come to the church.
You’re ignoring my question. You said,” (divorcing if the second marriage was born of sin). There is not one place in Scripture where that is commanded and yet this is what people are saying God says”.
If divorce is not mentioned in scripture concerning adulterous unions, and divorce concerning homosexual marriage is also not mentioned in scripture, then BOTH sexual unions, you are saying ,can be STAYED in—-yes? (See You can’t Compare Homosexual Unions with Remarriage )
Say what you will but you still haven’t provided a passage in the bible that instructs couples to divorce after they’ve remarried. Just waiting for a Scripture not anyone’s trip beyond what is actually written. It doesn’t bother you that you can’t specifically pull out a verse that deals with marriage/divorce that states this? The only time we see divorce being instructed is when the Israelites married outside the faith and you can’t use that one because it doesn’t apply here.
Let’s deal with Herod and Herodias again. John told Herod that he had Philip’s wife. What do you think repentance would have meant for Herod? How about the man who had his father’s wife in the Corinthian church? Does repentance mean they can keep what is not rightfully theirs since they have already taken it? How about if I steal a car…………the car STILL belongs to the rightful owner………….do I get to keep it now that I have taken it and driven it over 1,000 miles? What if I have it 10 years, does it then belong to me?
My request is straightforward. If what your saying is truth then you don’t have to bob and weave with the Scriptures. As important as this is, it should be a clear instruction. Paul addressed everything else. He took the time to correct the people so that they were clear that they should have sex with their spouses and not deny one another. Surely the man who took time to deal with this, would have taken all the more time to deal with the issue of divorcing after remarriage.
Paul did not tell the people in the Corinthian church what the man who had his father’s wife should do. He did tell the church to cast him out, so that his sin did not influence them for evil. I think it was pretty clear that even though Paul did not tell the sinning man what he should specifically do, that this relationship was SIN……….and when one is in sin, they need to forsake it.
When they got married they now belong to one another. They are no longer the property of the former spouse.
That’s not what Jesus says. He says when they join with another, it is adultery. Are you going to say that when one person has an extramarital affair, the covenant couple is no longer married, but the adulterous couple now belong to each other? If your emphasis is on the “vow”, Jesus doesn’t seem to give that element much stock, since again, he calls such relationships adultery.
The same way God can forgive those who go back to the former after having divorced and remarried (which is against his Word) is the same way God can forgive those who illegally married.
The illegally married do not belong to each other…………….VERY different scenario.
You can’t shell out God’s forgiveness for the disobedient that you think are in the right and then deny that same forgiveness to those you say are disobedient as well on the remarriage side.
Again, a covenant marriage is not a sin. Adultery is a sin and in most cases, divorce is a sin. Adultery and divorce need to be repented of. One doesn’t repent from a covenant marriage. They return to it, if they have forsaken their covenant in favor of entering into sin.
I think the double standard is really odd . Divorce is both holy and unholy. It’s sin over here but righteous over there.
Mal. 2 deals with divorce in COVENANT marriage. God hates the putting away of COVENANT marriage. God also desires to see covenant marriages restored……………..See Hosea 2 (Gomer wanted to return to her 1st husband……….because it was better for her). Explain how Gomer returning to Hosea is an “abomination”…………..
Did the men of Ezra 9-10 do “wrong” IN THE LORD’S SIGHT in putting away their unlawful wives/children?
The most devastating part of this error teaching is the admonishment to divorce the current spouse and seek reconciliation with the first if possible.
Tell that to the wife or husband of the covenant marriage and the children who have been forsaken—-tell them how devastating it would be for them to have their husband/wife/daddy/mommy back……………. tell them that they should be praying instead for their spouse/daddy/mommy to be happy in their sin.
The issue I was addressing is whether it is biblical to divorce a second time. That is the point of the posting. I know you won’t agree based on your stand but your response is not addressing the Scripture.
Is is biblical? Yes. Read again Ezra 9-10. Do you discount THAT event, which very much more reflects this discussion (unlike the Samuel passage you quoted).
Actually I reject it because there is no biblical instruction to enter into a second divorce. I have no problem with Jesus calling any matter divorces adultery but again, that is where He stopped. There is no instruction in the NT that says a couple should divorce again. As I have said, this has been added. It may seem right but from what I see in Scripture, it is not the correct solution
What do you see in scripture that leads you to believe that restoring a covenant family back together again is NOT the correct solution?
The woman at the well was living with a man that was not her husband. This means she was not married to him. There is a big difference between telling a woman to leave the relationship in which she is just living with the guy and telling a married woman or man to divorce their second husband/wife. That is not the same thing.
Well, of course you would say it is not the same thing, but it is. The woman at the well was living in a sinful relationship. Jesus said that those who put away their spouses and marry others are living in a SINFUL relationship. Either you believe people can continue to live in sinful relationships or they must forsake those sinful relationships. It matters not if it’s fornication or adultery.
Not at all. What I’m saying is that one must first call it sin and that is why this debate is so long. What you call sin is called a marriage to others and you would have them label it sin and then instruct them to repent.
Jesus called it sin, that is all we need to hear.
No I do not discount Ezra at all but this is not a case where men are divorcing their Christian wives to marry pagans is it?
What??? The men transgressed against God and married women that were forbidden to them. They put away their covenant wives to do so!!! Then, in repentance, they put away their pagan wives. So this “two wrongs doesn’t make a right” argument is baseless—based upon God’s Word to the contrary. The only divorce that scripture speaks about as God hating, is the putting away of a COVENANT spouse—the wife/husband of one’s youth!
Just one question though, if the second marriage is unlawful to the Lord (scripturally speaking) and He does not recognize the second marriage as a marriage at all, but adultery, you must separate yourself from the second marriage at least physically right (no sexual contact, no living together, etc..? It doesn’t necessarily mean a divorce does it? Someone could get legally separated, but not necessarily have to divorce if I’m understanding this. I am going to PM you to tell you why I am asking these questions. Thanks again
I’ll be happy to answer your PM, but for the benefit of those who are reading this thread, I’ll answer your question here too. I would say that for a Christian, we SHOULD sever all ties with a person we were committing adultery with (obviously though, there still will be ties if children are involved—this being a lasting repercussion of our sin) .
Why the necessity of a civil divorce? Because we wouldn’t want to give the appearance to those on the “outside” or even other professing Christians, that we are still “married”, but living apart from the adulterous partner. They will continue to view the partner in adultery as a legal spouse—and you will be seen as one who is “rebellious/disobedient” because you won’t reconcile with who they “think” is your spouse.
The thing is, if one truly believes they already have a legal spouse(their covenant mate), then they wouldn’t want others to continue believing the “unlawful” one is actually still a spouse, although separated from each other.
Intimacy stopping, then physical separation, then civil divorce would be the proper steps for a Christian to take once they are convicted of their sin. There are instances when physical separation and divorce cannot happen immediately, which is understandable, but I believe fully, and have seen it work, that GOD will provide the ability to do His Will in these situations. Blessings………
It seems to me that God does not hate every divorce because these men divorced according to the will of God.
Ah, I am glad you are finally admitting this. Now, in the Malachi 2 scenario, the men divorced their COVENANT wives. THIS is what God hated. Divorce that was GOOD, was that the men PUT AWAY the women whom were forbidden them. It was God’s Will to divorce such women—-even though they had children together, these women were not COVENANT wives.
We are not talking about a legitimate divorce for biblical reasons.
Yes, the only “biblical” reason God approves of a divorce is to remove a third party(or second party) from the ONE FLESH. The NT is no different than the OT in that regard.
The permit to divorce (from 2nd marriage) with no true biblical grounds. The permission to break your vow to someone. The encouragement to divorce for the express purpose of being with another (first spouse). All this in the name of Jesus.
Being joined with someone who is NOT one’s lawful spouse in the Lord’s eyes is a VERY GOOD reason to forsake that illicit relationship. I find it quite ironic that some put so much effort in keeping together those unions Jesus calls adultery, yet they do not seem to have the same passion about the original marriages—–even when a woman/man is standing, fasting, praying, for God to bring their adulterous spouse home.
Even worse if the former spouse has remarried. Then comes the desire for a divorce to occur in that marriage. The desire for someone who doesn’t belong to you any longer.
Again, you ignore Jesus’ very words on this issue. The second couple are committing adultery. It is adultery because the first marriage is not dissolved in the sight of God. It matters not what society deems “legal” when it is an affront to God.
I dare these people who are quoting these false doctrines to find ONE scripture that states repentance of an adulterous marriage requires you divorce them and leave that marriage. If obviously everything else in there is pretty clear cut/to the point/quite described-why would He leave this out if he intended for us to repent by divorcing again?
Do we have to have exact scripture before we can say that a homosexual who is repentant should forsake his/her relationship as the fruit of repentance? How about a couple living together in fornication? How about a person who is a known liar? Did not Jesus already label the sin(s)? Is that not good enough for us? Do we have a misunderstanding as to what true repentance entails?
I have never seen anyone here give an example from scripture or early church records of anyone being told to either commit a second divorce after they had re-married and go back to their “first” spouse, or that the divorce they had already obtained was not legal and that they must go back to their “first” husband.
There has been scriptures given in which the Lord does not recognize a union as one HE joined and blesses.
Ezra 9-10 DOES show men divorcing their wives (and children) because they joined themselves with those the Lord commanded them not to.
We also have the example in Mal. 2—–the Lord REJECTS the offerings of the man who has divorced his covenant wife and married another. With today’s popular teachings, isn’t GRACE supposed to cover such sins and then the Lord WILL accept one’s offerings who remains in such a marriage? The scriptures show entirely a different picture than what is being preached today in many pulpits.
Then we have the example of Herod/Herodias—–many would say: “they divorced civilly and then married each other, the Lord, though maybe not pleased with how it transpired, forgives them”………. However, what does scripture say? “Herod, it is NOT LAWFUL for you to have your brother’s wife!”…………I do not see where John said to Herod, “just kneel down here brother, confess your sin, then the Lord will allow you to go on with your brother’s wife…………her marriage to Philip at that point will become dissolved and she will then become YOUR wife”………..
No, we do not see such a thing. Instead, anger burned in the heart of the adulteress to have their relationship spoken of in such a way………so much anger burned in her, she plotted to obtain the head of John. I see that very same anger/spirit directed at those who quote the scriptures in which the Lord has labeled relationships HE deems as sinful.
In regards to NT teachings on divorce/remarriage, I believe it’s pretty clearly laid out that the Lord Himself regards remarriages while one has a living spouse as ADULTERY. One cannot be in adultery AND in a lawful, joined by God marriage.
I think what also can be said is this: do we need an example of forsaking sin in order to do it ourselves? I do not see examples of women getting ready for an abortion getting off the table when conviction hits them in the Bible. Yet, that IS the right thing to do in God’s sight. I don’t see an example of a homosexual couple getting a “civil” divorce and forsaking their relationship in scripture, yet I think we can agree that this IS the correct thing to do in God’s sight, since it is God Himself who will not recognize this sinful relationship. He has spoken on certain “marriages” contracted and labeled them “adultery”………………what more do we need more in order to repent?
I agree with your definition of repentance, but not the definition of adultery that you used here. The difference is that I believe strongly that the covenant of a 2nd marriage is binding even when it was entered into in sin. Requiring someone to break that covenant would be wrong, so breaking that covenant couldn’t be required as an act of repentance. The point I was making about repentance; however, was not directed towards the spouse who broke the covenant, but at the spouse who was now unable to reconcile the marriage because the vow was broken.
What in scripture leads you to believe that the second vow, made one when is NOT free to vow, is binding? Do you believe David was sinning in taking back his wife Michal from her second husband? See What about David & Bathsheba?
I think that you will find that it is equally hard to find any scripture that explicitly calls for divorcing a spouse because the marriage is considered “illegitimate”.
To be honest, there is MUCH more scripture to justify the leaving of a adulterous union/marriage than there is of leaving fornication, homosexuality, etc……….yet most in the church would have no problem at telling those engaged in that type of immorality to forsake those unions. Why then is there such a move to tell those whom Jesus says are in adultery, that they should STAY in those relationships. Again, if one is to put a vow as the be all end all, then it needs to be proven that a vow made, while not free to make it, supersedes the original vow………the one God honors as lawfully made. And, in another vein, one would need to prove, biblically, that God joins this new “union” He calls sinful. If He doesn’t join it, then the two are not ONE in marriage in God’s sight.
I think the issue is that I can find no scriptural support for an idea that a second marriage covenant is invalid, and in those instances where a second marriage is alluded to in scripture, there does not seem to be any indication that the covenant is considered invalid. What is condemned very strongly in scripture is the divorce and remarriage, but not the covenant of the marriage itself.ve divorce in the case of those whom HE joined together is wrong/sin. The only passage we can find in scripture in which God says that He hates divorce is in regards to a man putting away his FIRST wife and then marries another (Malachi 2).
I believe it takes much more assuming to say that the relationship God calls adultery changes into a lawful relationship when there is not 1 scripture to justify such a position, don’t you?
I think the issue is that I can find no scriptural support for an idea that a second marriage covenant is invalid, and in those instances where a second marriage is alluded to in scripture, there does not seem to be any indication that the covenant is considered invalid. What is condemned very strongly in scripture is the divorce and remarriage, but not the covenant of the marriage itself.
Well, I can’t convince you to take Jesus’ words to heart on the nature of that remarital relationship. For me, it’s pretty clear though. It is an invalid relationship in the Lord’s eyes………..a sinful relationship because the Lord sees the original couple as still bound together—-by Him.
This was in response to “another divorce will not cause any damage to the Christian community”. Tearing apart a happy family with loving parents because someone believes that it is continuous adultery will drive some further from the gospel.
I don’t think any of us who believe first marriages are binding until death feel that another divorce will not cause damage. It sure will……..it will damage emotions, finances, mindsets, etc, but the thing is, when we follow the Lord, even in those very hard things that bring suffering to us/others, in the end, God will be glorified and there will be TRUE healing for those who Love God.
There are plenty of other opportunities to show that God leads us through the hard times.
And many of us believe the Lord leads those who have been convicted of being in adultery through the hard times which come from repentance………..He leads them then to a “peaceful” place with Him…….a place where one has a pure heart/conscience before Him.
As much as some don’t want to admit it, to see someone who struggled for many many years trying to hold a relationship together because it was the Christian thing to do… and feeling sorry for them.., then after a remarriage seeing them restored and whole in a loving relationship. Hmm, might that not show them the Grace of God
Some may look at it that way, but ultimately what does it show the onlooker when they see a Christian give up on the one God joined them to? What does it show them about God’s longsuffering? What does it show them about “enduring to the end”? The “world” teaches that we should do all we can, then if we can do no more, it is then ok to move on. This is a world lacking in faith. When we too act as the “world”……….and the fact is that many “worldly” people are more longsuffering than those who profess the name of Christ———so how are we presenting an image of God that is better than the “worlds” when we give up on sinful spouses and seek others to fill their places?
I can not believe what I am reading here. Some here are adding to the word of God words that Jesus never said AT ALL nor will you find these words in the NT. prophet please show me where Jesus demands this formal divorce as you say from a remarriage? Jesus did say go and sin no more. He also said he did not condemn this woman. Yet you give her Instructions? So where are these added words that you added in here for Jesus saying He has said to formally divorce in a remarriage? One is to repent, repentance is enough when one does not continue in the same sin. The sexual relations must be abandon and that is it! That is what the sin was. Did it ever occur to you that every believer is this adulterous woman who also lived in sin? When you were forgiven Jesus told you and everyone of us to sin no more. Do you sin everyday? Do you have thoughts in your mind that are sin? Are you without sin? Are you perfect? Jesus fulfilled the law yet you lay the law down on people? God forbid! In your previous post prophet you sway in your doctrine all who read your post can see this you have been talking out two sides of your mouth saying one thing then saying another bringing much confusion to the people in the body of christ. Do you sway by the wind in every doctrine you preach? Just curious.
I agree with you that Jesus spoke to the woman to go and sin no more. In regards to an illicit remarriage, however, stopping the sexual activity cannot encompass full repentance………it is only partial repentance. I’ve stated before that I could never tell a woman/man WHEN they should leave the household, and disentangle oneself legally, but I will say that it must be done.
If, as we believe, one is STILL married to the first spouse—in the sight of the Lord—- does it make sense that a woman/man should then be living with another man/woman, giving the impression to others they are “married”, living in lawful matrimony?
Adultery is so much more than just the sexual act itself……….it has to do with joining with another who is not one’s spouse— in mind/heart, etc. A Christian is not even to give the APPEARANCE of evil, so to me, for prophet or any of us to counsel a person in an adulterous marriage that they should take steps to legally and physically disentangle themselves with one whom the Lord did NOT join them to, is counsel based upon the ENTIRE Word of God. I know that it may be hard for some due to financial concerns, concerns over children, hurting those in the extended family, etc. Believe me, I never counsel “lightly” in such cases, especially to women because I myself am a housewife and know how HARD not having a man taking care of me/my children would be.
However, it truly does come down to this: if one does believe they are living with someone who is NOT their lawful spouse, because they already HAVE a lawful spouse in the Lord’s eyes, it stands to reason what the decision should be in such cases. The Lord is faithful to care for those who obey Him, this I do believe. Blessings……..
With the utmost respect for those here I post this…
To say one must divorce because of previous marriages is completely and utterly wrong. God hates divorce, why would I now do something God hates, that NOW I am walking in His truth where before I was in the world.
When God speaks of hating divorce, He hates divorces of covenant spouses (Mal. 2). We can find elsewhere in scripture where He does NOT hate the putting away of spouses He did NOT join together (Ezra 9-10).
If Jesus says that a union is adultery because He does not view the divorce as dissolving the union HE put together, why do we assume we can then call it something different than He has called it? Scripture teaches that when God joins two as ONE in marriage, the bond remains until one of them dies, that is why He calls it adultery if one/both join with others—-because that bond has not been severed. We need to be careful about calling “good” what God has not called “good”, but instead calls sin.
If you go and turn yourself over to the one you robbed and they have forgiven you and removed the demand for a penalty to be paid because they have put up the money to cover the theft, there is nothing more to do than go on your way.
If you have stolen another’s spouse and married them, then you turn yourself into the Lord and seek His forgiveness. If He has forgiven you and removed the penalty for your sin of adultery (death), then go on your way and don’t do it again in your current marriage.
What if the person (brother/sister) whom one robbed does NOT forgive? Would the offender give back/pay back in such cases?
Concerning the mindset about just going to God after a deed is done AGAINST one’s brother/sister: That is completely unbiblical. Jesus taught that BEFORE any come to the altar, if someone has OUGHT against them, they are to go and make it right with their brother/sister, first…………THEN, their offering will be accepted. We see this scenario in Malachi 2 where the priest who divorced his covenant wife and married another came to the altar……….and the Lord rejected his offering.
So the challenge will also be put to you to find the Biblical instruction anywhere that says a remarried couple should divorce upon discovering their marriage has been conceived in sin.
If God’s judgment is that a person is with another who does not belong to them (hence the relationship is adultery), and one comes to knowledge of this, saying sorry, does not then turn that illicit relationship into a lawful one, joined together by God. If the covenant spouses are still alive, the original marriage is still binding in God’s eyes…….and that is clearly taught in God’s Word.
Very often the stolen spouse does not want to be restored.
This is very true, but then, the “stolen” spouse too is in sin and needs to forsake their sin. “Want” does not dictate to God what is sin/not sin. God tells us what is sin/not sin and we who love Him, adjust ourselves as we are given truth/light about our sin. Concerning the “stolen” spouse who DOES want to be restored—-I am seeing that MUCH now……..as the stolen one now is looking at their ‘non’ covenant relationship as God sees it—sinful—and looking at their covenant spouse as God views them(the wife/husband of their youth—-the wife/husband of the covenant. And I praise the Lord for that!!! For many today are coming out of the darkness and into the light concerning the practices they thought were “good”, but God said were evil (sin). Our children can only reap GOOD things from us turning from our sinful ways.
Here’s the problem I have with this. How do you define “stolen”? A woman leaves her adulterous husband for example. She makes it clear to him that she is not coming back and is filing for divorce. The divorce becomes final and a few years later she marries another. Did that man steal her?
Steal – to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force:
Adultery means one does not have the RIGHT to be joined with the one they are joining with, so in effect, they ARE stealing what does not belong to them. I know many who have taken a spouse who did not belong to them who surely do NOT have permission from the other spouse nor have been given this “right” from God.
Not all marriages consists of a man and woman having sex. If in a relationship where the man and woman are not having sex at all, but are simply living together, would that be considered adulterous? Let’s say the man and woman have come to the knowledge of the truth, and because of the truth have repented, and are no longer having any form of sexual contact…is this considered adultery? Yes, in most cases there is some temptation…but we are all tempted in some way or another are we not? Does this mean that we are not to live together?
Well, let me ask you this: How did Jesus define adultery? Did He believe it ONLY encompassed the physical act? Let me also ask you this: If it is wrong to have relations with another person (ie; in an adulterous remarriage), is it then ok to for that married woman/man to live with another when in the Lord’s eyes they have a covenant spouse? In other words, is it ok for a married woman(a woman who already has a covenant spouse) to live with another man?
You say that “Most Christians would not counsel such a thing”, however most Christians are judgemental at best…they do presume because a couple is living together they must be having sex. That is judging wrongly. What would Jesus say in such a case…where the man and woman are content in living together? I don’t see anywhere in the Bible where the Lord prohibits a man and a woman from living together. I only see where He says “He who is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone.”
Ah, my husband and I talked about this very issue last night…….and truth be told, there is no scripture which expressly forbids an UNMARRIED woman and an UNMARRIED man from living together. However, for a CHRISTIAN, we are told to “flee from ANY “APPEARANCE” of evil. In today’s culture (the Western culture), when a man/woman live together, it DOES appear that they are living in sin.
If a woman says she has repented from remarital adultery, but refuses to divorce that man she has been committing adultery with and refuses to forsake living with him (giving the appearance to others that she IS his wife), that type of “repentance” I cannot agree with. Giving up sexual relations is the EASY part of repentance. Giving up the RELATIONSHIP and all that goes with it outside of the sex is the HARD part——the narrow path, in my opinion. To stay in such a relationship when the Lord sees such a one as being married to another is wrong………….as it is wrong for appearances’ sake—-because all those who look upon that situation believe these two to be “married”.
In effect, the one who stays who is convicted the relationship is wrong, is one who is causing others to wrongly judge the relationship (in this case, giving the apperance of evil is telling people that a relationship with one who is not one’s spouse in God’s eyes is ok to be stayed in).
Like I said before, all one needs to do in such a case is ask themself this question: In the Lord’s eyes (and that’s all that really matters here) is it ok for me to live with another man when I already have a husband? For me, the answer is clear, but I understand for some it may not be. Blessings…………
I think you meant Mt. 19 and 1 Cor. 7. I think those passages provide the clear biblical grounds for dissolving a marriage, but both passages indicate pretty strongly that divorce is not something we as a believer should choose in either of these cases, just an acknowledgement that sometimes the dissolution of a marriage is beyond our control.
You say you are not pro-divorce/pro-remarital adultery, yet, what you say above is very telling about your real position on this topic. You say that the Bible presents CLEAR biblical grounds to DISSOLVE a marriage, yet the truth is, that there are passages which cause your interpretation to come under question. And let’s not forget the “fruit” of your interpretation—–widespread destruction of marriages/families. Surely, you do not believe this is what Jesus was allowing when you say He allowed a marriage to be dissolved due to adultery? Remember, He knows the future……..He knows the power of the spoken word on generations to come…………50+divorce rate in the Western World………people swapping families, troubles abounding with such things. Do you honestly believe this is God?
I have been pretty clear about where I stand on this issue. Just because I believe that there are clear biblical standards for divorce, does not mean that I believe that most divorces were justified by those standards. Clearly divorce is a result of sin, and divorce always requires at least one spouse to break their covenant in sin. From my personal experices with couples who were divorcing I believe that most of the time both spouses are in clear violation of God’s standards when they choose to divorce. But, there are times when only one spouse chooses to violate God’s standards for marriage and breaks the covenant, and it is for those circumstances the exception exists.
The problem with your teaching/belief that ALL divorce is sin, is that it is not backed up by scripture. The men of Ezra divorced their wives IN REPENTANCE-—because their marriages were NOT ordained by God—–they entered forbidden marriages and hence, God’s judgment came upon that nation—until they repented (and they didn’t just say “sorry” and then keep those wives either).
Those who would contemplate divorce because of this doctrine should STOP. I appreciate the strong stand against divorce taken by most on this forum, I just wish that stand was applied equally to all marriages because I don’t ever see divorce as a Godly solution.
That’s because divorce is NEVER a GODLY solution. And truth be known, it is not the permanency of marriage “doctrine” that leads people to forsake their adulterous unions, it is the WORD OF GOD, which teaches that these unions are adultery. THAT knowledge is what causes people to forsake those illicit relationships. I would NEVER tell someone to go on my beliefs. Each person is responsible before God to “study to show thyself approved”. If someone can find in scripture where the relationships Jesus called adultery are NOT adultery, then they can walk in God’s peace. However, you tell people to walk in peace when there is NO evidence that such relationships change into a lawful, joined by God marriage—before the death of their lawful spouse. Pretty scary stuff to teach others, if you are wrong.
Yes, but I think it would be far more scary I were wrong in my advocation of a divorce that God did not condone.
I beg to differ. Since scripture teaches that adulterers (actively practicing in a lifestyle of “joining” with one who is not one’s spouse) shall not inherit the kingdom of God, I would think that those who encourage what the Lord has called adultery to continue, are those who are uplifiting what the Lord has called sin—–causing the little ones to stumble.
If I and others who believe Jesus means what He says when people remarry (that they are committing adultery), are wrong, and you are right, then if someone did repent(divorce), according to your teaching, they could remarry their covenant spouse(since there is no continual sin according to your teaching) or they could remain unmarried. If I am wrong, and you are right, the eternal state of those who divorce in repentance won’t be affected.
However, if you are wrong, and encouraging people NOT to forsake relationships Jesus calls adultery, and the scriptures are true that speak of adulterers not inheriting the kingdom of God, it WILL affect their eternal state.
That is why I said your position is scary to me…………especially since there is no Word from our Lord that these marriages He called adultery are no longer adultery—–while their spouse lives.
Because I view all divorce as wrong, when someone does choose to divorce based on the idea that they are honoring God, I see that as a huge tragedy!
What DO you do with Ezra then? Do you think these men were wrong? (See Ezra Chapters 9 & 10 – Putting Away Unlawful Marriages)
That is really a distortion of what has been said, I don’t believe that second marriages are more binding than first marriages, I believe that both our equally binding! I also have never advocated for divorce in either case. I believe that divorce in either case is WRONG, and is the result of the sin of at least one spouse, if not both.
Now I’m confused. BOTH marriages can’t be equally binding………unless one believes polygamy is an honored by God practice.
That is only true if you believe that nothing can break a marriage covenant, and I have made it clear that I don’t believe that. No marriage covenant should ever be broken, and if a marriage covenant is broken it is always due to sin of at least one spouse. That is true equally of first or second marriages.
The problem you have with that is proving it scripturally. Hosea’s wife committed adultery……..their covenant was NOT dissolved. Herodias committed adultery with Herod……….her marriage to Philip was not dissolved. Paul speaks on the bond of marriage in Rom. 7:2-3……..even though the wife is adulterous by joining with another man, the original bond is not dissolved……..until one of them dies.
I have said, and I will say it again that I believe that it is “terribly sinful” to walk away from any marriage, period. To implicate anything I have said with an idea that second marriages are better is a gross misrepresentation of anything I have said. Please let’s have an honest discussion.
I too want a very honest discussion. My comment to you was said due to your statements that each marriage has equal value. In scripture, we just do not find that, so in honesty, how can you make such a statement? In scripture, we see that when a couple who is free to marry, comes together in marriage, God joins them, taking two and making them into one flesh.
In a remarriage, we have God, in the scriptures, tell us that such a joining is sin. It is adultery. With that information in mind, how can one then in honesty, say that the second marriage is the same to God as the first? I gave you the examples in scripture where it clearly shows that the second is NOT equal to God as the original marriage.
More correctly, in scripture you don’t see second marriages as having a valid covenant, but most Christians who have studied the bible have not come toe the same conclusions in this regard
It doesn’t matter what conclusions we come to if we do not have the scripture to back up those conclusions. You do not have scripture to back up your conclusion that God sees a second union, one which He says is adultery, as equal to the first one—the ONE He joined together.
Again most Christians who have studied these same passages would not agree with you that all remarriage is sinful, nor would they agree that remarriages are invalid because sin was involved in there inception.
Again, the problem you have is saying that what God says is adultery, is no longer adultery. You say “at the inception”……….yet, Jesus did not say just the “act” of marriage was adultery, then the relationship was now a lawful one……….He merely said that when someone puts away their spouse and marries another, they commit adultery (joining with someone who is not your spouse). How can one be joined in lawful marriage AND be committing adultery in that very same act? Paul is very clear that if a woman joins with another man while her husband lives she SHALL BE CALLED AN ADULTERESS. Paul, the preacher of God’s Grace, surely would not forever label a woman such if she was not an adulteress (the label, not a one time act). Paul also is clear in that same passage that DEATH is what will sever that bond, not her adultery.
Malachi 2 – Again in every divorce the sin of at least one person was involved, the issue is not that there was sin or not, divorce is always wrong. The issue is whether the sin of one spouse can break the covenant, and I believe that scripturally it can.
I noticed you never answered my question: based upon Jesus’ definition of adultery, do you honestly believe He is giving license to chuck one’s marriage away due to that sin? As to your statement that “divorce is always wrong”, I don’t know why you keep saying that. Scripture has proven such a statement to be false (Ezra 9-10). The only divorce I can find in scripture that is spoken about in a negative way is the putting away of one’s covenant spouse.
Not to be sidetracked, the point is, this passage (1 Corinthians 7) does not give instruction in dealing with the matter of a former spouse who does not return. If you see direction in this passage pertaining to that, point it out. If you see a command in this passage telling the remarried to divorce and return to the former, point it out. If you cannot, why debate what was said about this passage…(that’s a rhetorical question).
It doesn’t matter that Paul doesn’t address the “what ifs”……….He already gave the command of the Lord and there were not “conditions” to that given, so why do you feel that you must add conditions to change the commands of the Lord in regards to the actions of the woman who departs? We have already read in scripture that if a divorced woman marries, she commits adultery. Paul need not add to the command on what to do if one does separate from one’s husband. We have been given the FULL picture. I still do not get your insistance that there must be PROOF shown in scripture that a person has to forsake what the Lord has labeled a sinful relationship. I think we already have been given all the admonishments we need—though out all of God’s Word, don’t you?
Perhaps you feel comfortable with claiming that the Lord commands remarrieds to divorce without any clear Scriptural backing but I do not, therefore, because of the seriousness of this matter, I do believe if what your teaching is true, it would have been addressed very specifically. What you’re suggesting is the equivalent of me addressing the mild case of acne on your skin when you have life-threatening cancer. Makes no sense.
I feel very comfortable in sharing SCRIPTURE on what the LORD said about such relationships. I also feel very confident in sharing what the Lord’s Word speaks on forsaking illicit relationships, or any known sin for that matter. If the Lord Himself teaches that a divorce does not dissolve what He joins together, then I am confident to speak forth those same words. If He calls a remarriage adultery (because the original marriage bond remains in spite of divorce), then I too am confident to share His truth on the matter. If the Lord speaks through Paul that even in the case of adultery, a marriage endures until death, that truth too, I am confident to share with others. What do you say concerning the man in I Corinthians 5 who is having relations with his father’s wife? Since Paul does not say EXACTLY to this man what he should do in repentance, do you believe it ok for the man to continue his relationship because leaving the relationship isn’t clearly, word for word, spoken? Should we “pray” about what his actions need to be in repentance? Should another couple end up in the church in a similar situation, should we “pray” about them because maybe the Lord would allow THAT relationship, but the other He wouldn’t? To me, the reasoning you are using is foolishness. If the Lord has called a RELATIONSHIP sin, then it is sin. The sin has to be forsaken. It ironic to me that people take issue with what Jesus calls adultery (thinking they can continue to commit adultery against one’s own spouse), yet they would never say the woman at the well should continue in the relationship she is in………that even though Jesus didn’t tell her what to do in repentance, it is clearly understood.
There are no Scriptures that instruct remarried believers to divorce.
But there are numerous scriptures that show the new relationship is not lawful in God’s eyes—-that those who are involved are committing adultery against their covenant spouses by having relations with someone who is not their spouse (the definition of adultery). See, you bear the burden of proving what Jesus said is adultery, is really not adultery. You have failed to prove this, biblically.
To address your quote “What do you say concerning the man in I Cor. 5 who is having relations with his father’s wife? Since Paul does not say EXACTLY to this man what he should do in repentance, do you believe it ok for the man to continue his relationship because leaving the relationship isn’t clearly, word for word, spoken?”
Here’s what the Bible says regarding the above case word for word, clearly and specifically:
Leviticus 18:8 (GWT) Never have sexual intercourse with your stepmother. She is related to you through your father.
(BBE) And you may not have sex relations with your father’s wife: she is your father’s
(KJV) The nakedness of thy father’s wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father’s nakedness.
There are no Scriptures in either the OT or the NT that instruct remarrieds to divorce. If there are, as I have done above, please post them.
Did you forget all the prohibition against adultery in the OT…….and the penalty for adultery? I do not see anywhere in the OT where God sees adultery as something that “joins” the adulterers in marriage……….and in the NT Jesus does not teach that either. It can’t be adultery and lawful marriage at the same time…….or do you say it can?
Here’s some more from Leviticus 18
11. You may not have sex relations with your father or your mother: she is your mother,
12. You may not have sex relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter
13. You may not have sex relations with men, as you do with women
14. And you may not have sex relations with a beast
Beastiality is not addressed in the NT at all!! How will you deal with those you minister to who are engaging in this sin? You must go to the OT to show them. I am sure you obey the above as well. Again we use the whole counsel of the Word of God in matters of divorce and remarriage because the whole Bible is profitable for teaching, training, rebuking and correcting.
1 Timothy 1:8 We know that Moses’ Teachings are good if they are used as they were intended to be used…
Again, OT scripture says, you shall not commit adultery. We see Jesus saying the same thing. In the OT those who commit adultery were stoned to death. Do you believe Jesus changed that to mean now adulterers can continue their sinful relationships? Notice that Herod’s marriage to Herodias does not nullify her relationship to Philip—–she is STILL called Philip’s wife, no?
You tell me God hates divorce and I must honor my (1st marriage) vows, but you have determined that my vows to my current husband are not valid. Somehow they don’t count and a divorce doesn’t matter in this case because God will bless this divorce, this abandoning of my spouse, this breaking of my vows to him, God is ok with it this time when I have absolutely no grounds for divorce. No adultery, no abandonment and no abuse but a wonderful Christian home where we have managed to raise wonderful children who are now saved. You are messing with people’s lives!
Yes you need to come with something more than conjecture when your attempting to prove that God is now a destroyer of marriages! You’ve got to be kidding me! This is NUTS to me!
God is not a destroyer of marriages, He came to destroy the work of the devil……….and adultery is such a work…….it is something that many have entered into and the Lord desires to free them from this sin. You call it “marriage”, yet the Lord calls it adultery. Who is right?
The Truth is that God is a restorer of those marriages that have suffered destruction—-from within the marriage as well as from without. check out this incredible testimony of restoration at the hands of the Lord: http://www.getreadyforlove.com:80/prisonofmyown.htm
Repeat this 100 more times. That won’t change anything. I’m not instructing remarried folks to divorce, you are. Your advocating divorce, not me.
You are quite wrong. The burden of proving that what Jesus said is adultery is NOT adultery is up to you. I am in line with what Jesus taught. You are not. You are teaching staying in a sinful relationship is ok, because one has a piece of paper. Jesus said that relationship is ADULTERY………..why? Because obviously the previous union HE joined together is NOT dissolved. I stand by what I have spoken because I know it lines up with TRUE repentance. What you teach is not true repentance.
It is you who has not shown from Scripture that this is the instruction of the Lord. Why not just say that? Why is it so difficult to say, “I don’t any Scriptures that explicitly and directly say this is what should be done, but I believe this is the right action to repent.” That would be the truth!
Try as you may, you will not be able to get around the multitude of teachings that call people OUT of their sin. Just because the particular ACT of repentance isn’t spoke of in regards to an immoral relationship, the fact remains that Jesus did label this particular sin. What one does in response to His labeling is up to them. They can change the label, but that doesn’t mean God does.
Are there instructions anywhere in the Bible for forsaking all immoral relationships? Does it tell someone who is cheating on their spouse exactly how to get out of the relationship Jesus calls adultery? Does it tell the homosexual how to forsake the relationship that God calls sinful? There are certainly many who minister to homosexuals and share God’s message of love and forgiveness while instructing them how to forsake their sinful relationships and the healing power of God that they can change. Everyone hates when this topic gets brought up. Don’t say this is not the same- immorality is immorality. We can’t single some sinners out. That would be hypocritical.
I am in full agreement with you. (name deleted) somehow thinks remarital adultery fits some special category of allowable immoral relationships. She’s not alone though, as there are many who teach that—–including John Piper who even teaches marriage IS until death–-there are no allowances for remarriage. I can’t quite understand his position.
In any case, as you know, many believe one can stay in “that type of sinful relationship”, but the same people wouldn’t dare say the same about the other types of immoral relationships you mention above.
What I am saying is that if you have remarried, do not divorce again. Stay in your marriage and obey the Lord. Be faithful and committed to your current spouse. Whatever sins you committed that attributed to your divorce, do not do them again. Be at peace with your former spouse to the best of your ability. That is what I’m saying. This is not giving a greenlight to anyone to divorce. This is acknowledging that another marriage has taken place. We are not talking about a man or woman leaving their dating partners. We are talking about a marriage.
Response No, you ARE giving a green light for divorce……….frivolous divorce. “you shouldn’t divorce for such and such reasons, but if you do…………….God’s grace covers it”. Did you not read what Paul wrote about such mindsets: “God forbid!!!” It was unthinkable that people were thinking to use God’s Grace in such a way.
You say you have “standards” in regards to the reasons for divorce and then remarriage, but they are not black and white. You believe that each person must determine for themselves if God allows them to divorce and then remarry. You also don’t believe the original covenant mate has a thing to say about how their life goes. One person has the power to permanently sever a marriage bond………..yet, you have nothing in the Word of God to support such views. The Lord has spoken quite clearly in Mal. 2 that He is WITH the forsaken covenant spouse. He has also shown that repentance does not entail coming to the altar with tears—such EMPTY repentance is rejected by Him. He has also shown that reconciliation/restitution must take place BEFORE any thing will be accepted by Him. He calls the first spouse, the covenant spouse, not the second.
We are NOT talking about a lawful marriage, but adultery. There is nothing in scripture to show us that the remarriage is anything different to God than extra marital adultery. The fact that society accepts it does not change what God says about such relationships.
First of all, no one here knows the whole story behind this and we are not at liberty to get into the details. Anyone can get on here and present themselves as the victim of an unjust divorce, when they could have actually been the cause of it. We can’t know. So the “victim” comes on here and tells us how she/he teaches the children about the wrongness of mommy or daddy, from their point of view. It may be that the husband/wife did leave and divorce frivolously. We are not privy to that information. We tend to automatically take the side of one party without even fully knowing what happened in that marriage. What if he/she’s not innocent? What if he/she’s in the house behind closed doors acting like a devil? They always feel wronged when the spouse leaves but you hardly hear about their unfaithfulness. You hardly hear about how they treated their spouse and all the ways they broke their vows. We don’t get that story. So now that they have repented they feel they are entitled to have their spouse back! Then they will use Scripture to try and force somebody to come back to them that they have severely wounded.
It’s so easy to focus on the one who left and divorced. Claiming that they are the reason the marriage ended. That’s a lot of baloney sometimes. That’s why folks should mind their business and leave judgment to God because only He knows the whole story.
You know what (name deleted), we ALL are sinners and in most all divorces there is plenty of sin to go around. Sometimes the so called “innocent” one has caused MUCH pain in their marriage and in return, the “guilty” one responds by divorcing………..and then compounding their sin, by getting themselves into an ongoing adulterous relationship (through remarriage or extramarital).
The fact remains that God’s Word says what it does. Do some people need to separate due to continual unrepentant sin? I do see the need for that and God appears to have made concessions for that(I Cor.7:10-12). However, what God did not make concessions for was for the “offended/offender” spouse to enter into another relationship, committing adultery. You have not proven your case.
Do you honestly believe that hardness of heart is ok in regards to one’s covenant spouse? Even if the Lord changes an abusive man, making him into the image of Jesus, is it AOK with you for that wife God joined him to, to now reject this man of God? For a Godly woman, there is no choice………..there is only the desire to walk in accordance with the Will of God……..to walk as Jesus walks………….not as sinful man/woman walks.
As I see it those here on this forum who are advocating a “frivolous” divorce, are those who place absolutely no value in the covenant of a second marriage and advocate for a divorce in this situation.
I place no value on such relationships because the Lord Himself calls such relationships adultery. Do I care about the PEOPLE in those relationships? Yes. I have heard from women and men in adulterous remarriages who are GRIEVING because they either disobediently went against God’s Word, or just didn’t know what God’s Word taught on divorce/remarriage. There are some real painful messes to untangle.
Why are people getting into these relationships—–because churches are not teaching the truth. What some are teaching is a “hard” word, but then they do not follow through. They teach, “The Lord commanded………….but if you disobey, it’s ok…………” That’s like teaching our children: “you should not have premarital sex………..but if you do, here’s the pill so you won’t get pregnant”…………That completely nullifies, “you should not”…………..it opens a door that God never intended to be opened.
Many of us shown many verses which stand in contradiction to your position
No, all you have shared is Mt. 19:9 and what you believe ‘porneia’ to mean. Can you show anywhere in the NT where remarriage is honored and not called sin?
and I am convinced if their were a verse that said “Do not Divorce your second husband” you would find someway to ignore that one two.
No, if scripture taught that every marriage after a divorced entered into was binding until a divorce, then I would not ignore such a passage. However, that is not what scripture teaches. Jesus taught that divorce does NOT dissolve what He joined together. That is why the second relationship is adultery to Him.
As it stands, there is absolutely no verse in the bible that asks that we divorce (from a 2nd marriage), but you still advocate that position.
I advocate true believers forsaking illicit relationships as defined by our Lord in true repentance.
I believe it is wrong! The fact is if you have already remarried, why are you asking? What are you going to do divorce your 2nd wife b/c you shouldn’t have married her? NO! I believe this is truly up to God. If you have a true relationship with the Father than you should be asking him not us! God WILL let you know what to do! There is some things that is good to ask for advice, but some subjects are truly up to what God thinks not us!
It is true that none of us can MAKE another do what we believe to be truth, but we ARE called to speak the truth in love to those who are seeking it. Many read here but do not post. They are questioning what they read in scripture. They are looking at their own lives which appear to be at odd with Jesus’ teachings. Jesus says that remarriage=adultery (which means one has not been freed from the the bond of marriage though a divorce has taken place). We must, if we are His children, speak the Word of God because we believe obedience to the Word brings freedom and His peace into one’s life. Blessings………
If someone does remarry… should they should divorce their second spouse?
What does Jesus say? “whosoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery and whosoever marries one divorced commits adultery”. It appears from Jesus’ words that He does not see a divorce as dissolving what He put together—-hence it is adultery to remain with the one God has NOT joined you to.
The point is that there are tragic consequences to being wrong period, and it is unfair to present this belief as if there isn’t an impact for being wrong if you hold to your belief.
I don’t think any of us who believe Jesus and Paul taught marriage to be lifelong have said that there wouldn’t be an impact if we are wrong. What we have stated is that any impact would only effect THIS earthly life.
However, on the other hand, scripture teaches that those who practice sin(adultery being one of them), will not inherit the kingdom of God. So if one is to encourage those in the sin of adultery to STAY in their sin(by telling them that what Jesus called a sinful relationship really isn’t that), they are in fact encouraging something that will affect another’s ETERNITY. THAT is troublesome.
If you cause others to reject God because they see ungodly things being done in his name, then you have really contributed to them losing everything.
If people see others forsaking what Jesus has labelled as a sinful relationship, and that turns people away from God, then as I said before, they have counted the cost of following Jesus and they do not think it is worth it. If we pick any other sin, the same exact argument that you have said can be used. It truly does come down to whether we want to live for Him or live for ourselves. Jesus said that MOST would choose the “broad” way, the way that leads to destruction………….why would anyone do that? Because the cost—-in THIS life—-is not worth it to them.
When the see a divorce take place in order to supposedly please God, many will be repelled from trusting a God who would ask his people to do that.
Does God call those who profess to be His to come OUT of sinful relationships? Does He call at least SOME remarriages adultery, in your opinion?
If God really did not ask anyone to do that, and it is just the invention of man, then their distrust of God and their mis-calculation of the cost of following him is a direct result of a false teaching
Teaching repentance of illicit relationships is VERY biblical.
The same cannot be said of any other sin because the Bible is very clear that God hates divorce, but it is very unclear that this only applies to the divorce of first marriages (as you believe). When you advocate for a couple to divorce in order to seek God, you are treading on dangerous ground if you are wrong, and I do believe you are wrong.
Like I said, you don’t believe ALL divorce is wrong either, do you? Again, I will direct you to Malachi 2 in which we find the passage in which God says He hates divorce………..and it relates to COVENANT marriages, does it not? We have already ascertained that divorce WAS shown to be acceptable when it was as a result of repentance from prohibited marriage(Ezra 9-10).
There are some on this forum will present reasons to ignore what was plainly said in these verses and teach the following:
1) every divorce is unjustified, even for a spouse who had no choice, and/or in the case where the divorce is the result of an adulterous affair or abandonment of an unbeliever.
That is not at all true. Some have absolutely no choice in a divorce. Some have divorce forced upon them. The thing is that believers should not sue out a divorce themselves. Some have felt the need to do so based upon the laws of the land not providing for them. In such cases, I will not stand judge. Overall though, a believer should not take their spouse to the heathen to “judge” for them. The truth of the matter is this: Paul told a believer not to leave an unbeliever (but the believer can do nothing if the opposite occurs). Paul also stated that if a believer were to leave their believing husband, they are to remain unmarried—-or be reconciled to their spouse.
2) every remarriage is sinful and must be dissolved by divorce before repentance is possible, and each spouse should return and remarry their first spouse if possible.
No, every remarriage is NOT sinful. One in which the spouse has passed away is lawful. Another remarriage that is lawful in God’s sight is one in which a single person marries a person divorced from their covenant spouse, comes to repentance for committing adultery with that divorced person, and then marries one who is LAWFULLY free to marry. In other words, the single person marries the 2nd time LAWFULLY. The first marriage was NOT a lawful marriage in God’s sight, but an adulterous union.
In the case of remarriages that God has called sinful, (adultery), it is the same with this sinful relationship as with all other types, true repentance requires forsaking it and returning to God(because if one is truly living in adultery, they are not walking with God), and the lawful spouse, if possible. Since God did not honor the divorce as dissolving the marriage He joined together, ANY relationship outside that marriage is sinful—-it matters not if the laws of the land see such a relationship as OK.
I personally believe that what is being taught is dangerous and goes against what is taught in scripture. The “explanations” that are sure to come, telling you why the plain truth of these verses should be ignored, are not accepted bye most Christian scholars, and you should be aware of that.
I agree. The majority of what is being taught today will lead many down the broad road of destruction. The popular teachings of today will make people feel comfortable in their sin. It is just as the prophets have told us, “they teach peace and safety, when their is no peace”. We are living in the days Paul described in II Tim. 3 and 4—-The majority today heap to themselves teachers which teach them things they WANT to hear—this generation is the epitome of “lovers of self, disobedient, covenant breakers, etc”. They have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof (God’s power to overcome sin………..God’s power to LOVE as He loves).
Jesus spoke of such as the “many” who will come to Him in that day, saying, “Lord, Lord”. These are not the Pharisees………..these are they who think themselves “spiritual”, but in their lifestyles are disobedient, breaking God’s laws—–named by Jesus as “workers of iniquity/lawlessness”. These have turned God’s Grace into a license to sin/break His commands. Those who are leading others down this road of disobedience/sin are walking a dangerous road themselves.
God is a God of infinite love and mercy—-to those who submit to His Lordship and walk a repentant life. No sin can stop one from walking with the Lord, if such a one is willing to walk away from sin and walk with Him.
I agree that some are far too liberal in holding believers to God’s standards and that is also dangerous; however, the danger I see here is commanding believers to hold to a standard not taught in the bible. Those who experience the unwanted results of this teaching in their lives are likely to reject God because of this teaching because it is not an accurate representation of who God is.
So you believe that we are not called to holiness and to separate ourselves from the world’s practices—–including immorality? Sorry, but I could give you verse upon verse that says that we ARE to be like Jesus—because He is in the true believer……….and if that be so, we should be a reflection of Him, not of the world.
Explain the benefits of your belief system to those who have been forsaken……….to those who are actually honoring the vows taken before God and man. Give them scripture to prove to them that their marriages have been dissolved in God’s sight. If a man shows up in a church with his new wife sitting across the row from his first wife and their children………..tell the first wife that God is AOK with her husband and his new wife and that he should NOT return to her and their children. Please…………present scripture which shows that you are correct in this and that mercy/Grace is there for the one who has forsaken their vows, but the loser in this (the original wife children) are now offered a “booby prize” which may include a step family with all the problems ensuing……. Do you really believe this is God’s Will—-for the family He joined together to be ripped apart by sin, then joined with possibly some other woman’s/man’s family?
…and if the Standers Cult does think the right thing to do about marriage after Divorce is to divorce, how does that fly with their professed ideal that God hates all Divorce??? Does He hate first divorces, but encourage or even require second and third ones as a condition of salvation? What sophistry! You guys are mindless…
My God is SOOOOO much bigger than that.
I feel that if many who speak out in support of remarriages were the ones doing the “standing” with children, etc, they would hold an entirely different viewpoint—-and their viewpoint can be biblically supported. In Malachi 2, the man who has remarried, who does God call the wife of the covenant? In scripture, which one does it show that is joined by God? Which one in scripture does the Lord speak of as a sinful union in His sight? All of those answers lead to the “now what” answers. If God does not view a union as lawful and if He does not join those He has declared to be in sin, does He then hate the forsaking of those illicit relationships? Apparently, the Lord has made clear that what He hates is the putting away of those marriages that He joined together. (See Ezra 9-10, for proof that God does not hate the putting away of forbidden marriage partners).
I don’t believe that you are in a perpetual statement of adultery, though. I don’t believe the bible says that ANYWHERE.
Either the Word of God teaches that what God joined together remains intact, or the Bible does not teach that and whatsoever God has joined together CAN be ripped apart and joined with another—-outside of death—with God’s blessings. So, if you do believe the relationship God has called adultery is adultery, then you cannot then believe it ok for such relationships to continue—-because the parties are ALREADY married to other persons in the eyes of the Lord.
When we give up on something (giving up on a marriage, per se, would be divorce) then we are saying that something is beyond God, aren’t we?? I mean, if we truly believe He is a God of miracles, second chances, resurrection, then we must believe He can raise any and all from the dead – including those of us walking in sin (death) and including those marriages that are in death (not in the physical sense, but in other senses).
It would be so nice to say otherwise, but it’s just not the case – yes, even in the cases that hurt our hearts so much because we would love for our spouses, friends, family or selves to be safe or saved from so much pain.
Yes, you are very right. Many think they have great faith for OTHER things, but find that when it comes to an erring spouse, they somehow do not believe God has the power to enlighten and give a heart of repentance to such a spouse. Instead, they believe it God’s will to “move on” and get another spouse who is “better”………unfortunately, most of those replacements are not “better”, but worse (hence the much higher divorce rate of 2nd, 3rd, 4th marriages).
And if divorce is a sin because it is breaking the commandment not to do it for any other reason, then to commit divorce with a second marriage would also be sin. But no where is a perpetual state of sin spoken of as some would say. So, if it’s sola scriptura.. then, we have to go what the Word says and not add to it.
The men of Ezra divorced their wives out of repentance/obedience to the Lord. In such cases where the marriages were sinful, it was NOT sin to divorce. When we read “I hate divorce”, in Malachi 2, it is in regards to those spouses that GOD joined a person to. God does not join people into what He has called adultery.
I think once we turn to God, admit what we’ve (general “us”, meaning believers, not me) done now that our eyes have opened, respectively, the Lord has mercy on us and forgives us. I don’t think or see anywhere that He requires reparation (i.e. divorce) from a second marriage. I think teaching that is a sin in itself, if it causing our brothers to stumble into sin – really anything that causes our brothers to stumble is a sin, isn’t it?
I personally believe teaching people to remain in relationships the Lord has called adultery is causing the brethren to sin/stumble—-and we shall be held accountable for telling others it is ok to stay in sinful unions. Nowhere in God’s Word do we see His approval on those marriages contracted unlawfully. If we do not find His approval on such relationships, but instead see Him saying that such persons are ALREADY married to another(that’s why He says it is adultery to marry another), then how can we encourage people to stay in adultery—-believing the Grace of God somehow wipes away the union He joined together? Considering the admonishments of Paul (to the brethren)—- the unrighteous WILL inherit the kingdom, it is a weighty thing to say what the Lord has called sin is NOT really sin, but ok to continue in.
I don’t see anywhere in the New Testament where Jesus or any other author calls those in a second marriage to divorce. What I do see is the allowances for divorce given by Jesus (Mt. 5 and 19), and Paul (1 Co. 7)
Find me one passage of scripture in which Jesus sees the original marriage no longer valid, but instead sees the relationship He calls adultery a valid marriage.
I think God always hates divorce. Even the 2nd marriage.
I think the 2nd marriage is valid
I think such a view is adding to Scripture thus I call it what I see it is… Legalism.
And this is the problem, “I THINK”…………….
What does God SAY?? “Whosoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery…….and whosoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery”.
Nowhere do we find Jesus legitimizing these relationships HE has called adultery—nowhere, yet man says, “I think”………..and here we are, arguing about what adultery is or is not. Man says these relationships are “good”, God says they are adultery/sinful. Whom are we to believe?
Man says God hates the 2nd divorce, yet which marriage is God speaking of in Malachi 2—-the FIRST marriage partner that is put away—-the wife of the covenant. What does God to the man who is now on his second wife and comes to the altar? I reject your offering! Yet, what does man say? Man says that you can go to the altar having transgressed one’s marriage covenant and “all is well with God!”…………….
God’s Word says, even in the case of an adulterous spouse (Romans 7-2-3) that the marriage bond endures until DEATH. Man says, no, it does not endure. It ends for this reason, that reason, this reason……….it is not until death.
Whom are we to follow, man who “thinks”, or God who SAYS?
I know of a case where a man was disciplined for divorcing his 2nd wife of 11 years who helped raise his children…for his first wife that had divorced him after affairs and abandoning him, plus kids. She got saved after 11 years and sought him out. His church rightfully so, did a Matthew 18 and eventually had him leave the church.
Praise the Lord that this man repented of his adultery and was restored with the wife of the covenant—-the marriage that GOD joined together. It’s unfortunate that his church uplifted the practice of remaining in adultery, but thankfully he is out of that church and walking in the Will of the Lord!